Podcast audio transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:08] Hey, now welcome back to the drupal Easy podcast, this is episode three of season 14.

Today I'll be talking with Leslie Glenn from Redfin Solutions about how to get started with project browser.

Now Leslie is one of the initiative leads for this exciting upcoming feature of drupal core.

Before we get to the interview and let me tell you a little bit about our long form training courses.

Last episode I told you all about our beginner focused drupal career online not being in february 13th, you can learn more about that at drupal dot com slash d C O.

But don't forget we are debuting our second long form drupal Training course and that is called Professional Model Development,

That is 90 hours over 15 weeks but we're actually also offering a light version of that course which is 60 hours over 10 weeks.

During the course we'll learn developer tools, dependency injection, custom plug ins cashing and really just so much more you can learn more about that at drupal dot com slash P M D.

[1:19] Leslie welcome back to the drupal Easy podcast, how are you this morning?

I'm great mike thanks for asking. Thanks for having me, you know what I like about you Leslie, I like I like the fact that every time I talk to you you do not bring up the Aaron Win Born award that you won.

[1:35] Unlike some winners. Yeah, that is true, I do not see that, I'm very honored to have won that but they're very modest. I like that, it's not in your face, thank you.

[1:49] Um anyway we're talking to you today about project browser which is a drupal community initiative of which you are one of the leads.

Um do you want to mention the other? I believe there's only one other lead.

Am I right on that? That's correct. It's chris wells from Redfin solutions who's the other lead?

Very good and um this initiative has been going on I'm gonna guess and I'm really bad at this so feel free to correct me as soon as I say this is probably what two years old this initiative,

it was announced by Greece drupal in north America 2021.

I'm not sure I don't recall the date of that but that's when the initiative so it isn't quite two years yet.

Alright, yeah, I feel pretty good about it because you could have said it's four years old and I wouldn't have been shocked that I was so long.

So Alright, so explain project browser to me like I'm five years old.

[2:45] Okay, so initially when we first announced that, as I just said, um the idea was for the project browser to make it easy for site builders to find and install modules.

So that was that was the goal when it was first announced, that was slightly modified, modified um,

in in Portland in 2022 at drupal con to be um we wanted to allow folks to discover great modules from within drupal without having to go to drupal dot org,

and install those modules with the click of a button.

So the whole real idea of it is to allow our target audience,

is site builders and those new to drupal although we anticipate everybody will use the project browser um but the goal is to take away the barrier of having to know composer have to know what a terminal is to be able to install modules.

All that functionality will be done with the click of a button from the interface from the UI.

[3:39] Well, that's super exciting, first of all, um you know, I guess the phrase I've heard around project browser is it's kind of like an app store for drupal but more of like a module store for drupal.

[3:53] That's correct right now, it's modules we started with modules. That's easy, that's the easiest thing.

We're hoping to add additional things there as well, additional things.

So I'm gonna get like themes possibly um not just yes, correct, recipes, Yes, recipes in the future. Yeah, so we're hoping to expand but we're starting out with just modules.

All right, so this is still in development it's currently lives in con Trib, I believe, correct. That's correct.

Alright. And so the whole gist of this podcast is how to get involved in the project browser initiative.

So I was actually pleasantly surprised when I went to the project page and I saw that there's multiple ways, relatively easy ways to test project. Project. You want to tell us about those three real quick? Sure.

Let's talk prior to we had a beta to release the Wednesday before thanksgiving.

That actually allows you to do the install with a click of a button.

We'll talk about that again. But the gamepad and get pod does not allow you to.

[5:01] Spin up the Beta two release but you can still use git pond to help us test. You just won't have that installed button.

The the button will say view commands and basically it gives you a pop up with all the different commands you would have to run to install other things.

Let me let me I just real quick what you're saying is this threw me for a second or two as well.

So it would probably throw other folks. So before this most recent data to release,

when you selected a module through the project browser, you would hit a button and it would basically show you the commands, you know, the composer commands or the drugs command I suppose,

to to download and install that module,

and that's really kind of only half of what the promise of project browser is.

The other half is to actually install as well.

And that's you know completely related to another strategic initiative which is automatic updates.

It's just a way of installing modules from the U. I. Or updating modules from the Ui. Which we'll talk about another podcast.

So the Beta two actually added that functionality to click the button and have it automatically install without you ever having to open up a terminal or anything like that.

[6:16] That is correct. So it interfaces with package manager and automated updates as you said to package manager is a package manager is a new module.

That is a dependency of both project browser and automatic updates. Do I have that? Right?

That's correct. You need to install that first, correct?

All right. So you can test um, some of project browser. Well, maybe not test, but you can contribute partly using get pod. What are the other two ways?

Uh well simply test on me currently there is an ongoing issue.

There is an issue in the issue queue for that. So simply test on me is not an alternative at the moment.

[6:58] We'll get part you still can use valuable, very valuable for folks who are newer to drupal and site builders to go in and just look at the interface. You know, I'm searching for, I'm trying to find a module to help me out. You know, we're gonna talk about that in a moment.

Absolutely. Okay. Right. So the third way is locally um, you can just,

composer require the project browser beta two version and then you can, there's a couple of commands to install the things we've talked about, package manager and then automated updates and then there's a flag.

So by default the automated updates will not be turned on.

There's just a flag that you have to select to say I want to use that and that's just the current way that is that It's um the UI is working.

So there is a link to the instructions to do that, which I will share with you and you can share in the notes.

Perfect. So the first thing I normally look at whenever I install a new module, although technically I guess I should say whenever I install a new project is what modules are included.

So I know that project browser includes more than just the main project browser module.

Um, I believe there's two others. Can you just briefly mention what those are and what they do.

[8:13] Yeah, I'm gonna start with the other one that I know is being used right now with the project browser, which is the source example.

So a project browser. Source by default.

And what we're going to talk about this in a minute actually is the interface. But um the source example allows you to have other collections of modules besides just the contrived modules.

So again, we'll get into that in the next section. But that's what the project browser source example, like I'm stanford University or um, company abc and I have my list of preferred modules.

How do I set up that source so that when people in my on my team building sites for my organization go to project browser, it'll pull in the modules that that I prefer as opposed to just pulling in the the.

[9:03] Modules.

Let me ask you a question about that because that's interesting. So.

[9:08] Is that a list of custom modules or is that a list of, you know, use the word preferred?

Which is why I think what I'm keying in on, is that like a subset of the contribution modules on drupal dot org that are kind of allowed quote unquote for that particular organization or is a combination of customers?

It's the latter, I believe. It's it's the it's the preferred modules that you want,

your company organization to, to use as opposed to there's there's a lot of modules out there, so if you're supposed to all of the modules, correct, correct. Okay, cool.

Yeah, that's what that one does. Devil. I honestly have never used it before, so right now, I can't tell you there's two arms to this whole project team, there's the,

site builder subcommittee, which I lead and then, which is more the UI testing, you know, getting, making sure that it's going to be useful for our target audience and then there's a technical team, I can get an answer for you on that, but right now I cannot tell you what the hell does.

[10:09] Yeah. Alright, so the interface is really cool.

Um, I actually hadn't played with it in a few months, so I installed dated to a day or two ago and I was playing with it,

and my initial question and I know you're gonna have an answer for this because as you just said, you're kind of leading the site building side of it?

You know, My first big question was how who decides or how is it decided which modules appear, you know, by default on, you know, on that very first page.

[10:42] Okay. So the key thing is which is different from going to the drupal dot org page is it's only gonna return modules that will work with the version of drupal that your site is built in.

So we're within a drupal site, it's drupal nine for instance, it'll only bring back modules that are compatible with drupal nine,

it won't bring back all the drupal seven and eight and all those other modules that that you wouldn't want to choose for? drupal nine site. So that's a huge win.

So it's right from within your module that you're doing this browsing.

The second thing is we're only by default, we're bringing back modules that are covered by the security policy, so that's another check that we do.

And the third one is is it maintained is at least moderately maintained. So those are the three defaults and then it brings you back the top the top use. So it goes by usage.

So the first one is the one that is used the most and then it goes down from there. So so it it actually uses the same numbers that we see on the project page on drupal dot org for the usage, that's what the order, that's the default sort order.

There's other ways to sort them, but that's the default because it's what, what most people install is what somebody new the drupal would want to look at is the assumption.

[11:58] So the maintained bit um is that a is that a judgment call anywhere or is that like what dictates if something is maintained or not?

Is there a rule, Is there like a quantitative rule?

Yes, there is. It's it's from the drupal dot org page.

And it's the maintenance status, I believe. And there's a couple of them that we include.

I don't remember this, this was about a year ago that we made that decision. But yes, it's stuff that's the stuff that's maintained.

We don't really look at the development status. We look at the maintenance, there's two different things and,

we look at the maintenance and make sure that at least minimally maintained before we will show it by default, I guess, the the pessimist in me, which is a very small part of me, I like to think I look at something like this and I'm like, okay.

[12:46] How can this be gained? Right. If,

you know, if someone wants to like really promote their module and get it up, you know, towards the top of this list by default, it seems like none of this is qualitative, it's all quantitative,

based on existing data on drupal dot org. Do I have that? Right?

[13:07] Yes, that's the idea. One thing we're also doing, which we haven't talked about is categories is another filter. We're gonna talk about that.

Okay, good. Okay. So we can talk about a lot of work. Yeah, we can talk about that how that was being used to promote modules possibly. So yeah, we can talk about that one. But those are the defaults.

There are advanced filters just so people who might be listening,

who are more advanced, there are the advanced filters that allow you to do things like development status or show me ones that aren't covered by security policy so you still can get to that but that's hidden, you know, behind a filter, you can't actually see those by default.

So are there plans or have there been discussions for adding additional filters in the future?

I don't know what they would be. I can't think of any other top of my head but it seems like, you know, with any search tool, whether you're searching for modules or or you know, or using, you know, Duck Duck Go or something like that.

There's there's always, you know, advanced filters that can really help you narrow it down.

[14:09] Right, yep. So there are there are other things like I didn't mention the main one, which is the the textual search, so you can just go in and you can put in the module name, we intend to have that cover the, you know, the short description, possibly the categories.

Um so that's one way, that's the way a lot of people searches, they just type something and they've heard about, you know, redirect and they'll just type in that word. So that that's one filter that I neglected to mention.

One of the other ones we're thinking about adding is ecosystem.

So there is an ecosystem. So let's just say it's commerce, the commerce ecosystem, there's a lot of modules that are dependent, you know, once you install, let's just say it's commerce, there's a bunch of other modules, payments and all that kind of stuff that you can get.

So that would bring back all the related modules that are part of the ecosystem, which is defined on drupal dot org.

You know, the same with web form has an ecosystem, I would imagine that's got an over some overlap with the categories, the ecosystem and categories are not quite the same thing, but.

[15:12] In the same ballpark, yep, and we can talk about how we're hoping to differentiate that.

So one of the things that I thought, and I don't even think that this would be a part of this project until I heard about it, I'm like, oh well that makes sense that this needs to be done in addition to the categories which we're going to talk about next.

The fact that I know that your team has put a lot of work into,

writing teasers, like small little descriptions of these modules as well as, you know, creating,

icons for, you know,

some of these modules that don't have icons yet and it really it adds a lot to that,

to the project browser page as you're scrolling through to see, you know, an icon and name one or two sentence description, um some some some categories or tags, you know.

[16:17] Right, so yeah, a lot of efforts been happening there, a lot of contributions from across the community of all different levels, you know, people brand new to drupal and experienced module maintainers have helped out.

But yeah, so designers, easy way to get involved is to create the, create the logos or or review somebody else's logos um the,

you call the teaser, we call it short description, it is going to use the summary field on drupal dot org.

So there's a body field and there's a summary which is not being used for anything, it's a 200 character summary field.

So instead of just grabbing the 1st 200 characters of the description or the body, we decided that having a short, nontechnical and that.

[17:00] Non technical description is what we wanted on the cards on the front page of the project browser.

So it's just a quick synopsis of what this module will do for me if I'm looking for a module and then I can drill further into it to see the details.

So how are those? I mean are you opening issues or not you personally but the team,

Opening issues in like the top 100 most used modules for you know a,

short description and an icon and kind of working in issues directly in each modules issue queue or is this being handled in the project browser issue Queue currently is being handled in the project browser issue queue.

So there is a major issue for each module and then there are three child issues.

One for the logo, one for the short description and then one for the categories because we do have to clean, we'll talk about that later. But yes, let's talk about that now let's that's great, let's go right to it.

Yeah. So I think a lot of folks who have been around the drupal community, as long as you and I have leslie,

I'll speak for myself here but you know, the categories have kind of become less and less useful as time has gone on because they were just, you know, quite a mess.

There was some duplication in there and I just didn't really.

[18:19] I think it was very high quality data and I know early on this was something that you and the rest of the team kind of identified as something that needs to be cleaned up. So so tell us about that effort.

[18:31] Right, So that effort has been ongoing. We did a research first to look at the current categories. There are 55 current categories, which is way too many.

Um There's a lot of duplication. As you say, there's a lot of old categories like C C K which aren't really relevant anymore.

So we started um a project to take those and see how we could, you know, eliminate change, rename them, add new ones, you know.

[18:55] And we decided we actually had a buff um jeez I don't remember which camp it was that could have been bad camp um that we talked about, you know what what approach we used.

This is gonna take forever to go through all these categories and figure out you know what we should do.

So somebody was actually Susan Decker Chavez from involving web that came up with the idea of why don't we just start with a minimal number and go from there.

So basically what we're doing now is we have like 18 categories.

We're creating descriptions of those um You know what we feel would fall into those 18.

And we're doing, we've been having the last two meetings, we had zoom calls as opposed to just a synchronous slack,

meetings where we actually talked about it and we're trying to figure out if that 18 is the right number and the next round is to figure out which categories would fit into those.

Um I'm sorry which modules will fit into those categories. And then we're gonna run it by the maintainers and then we're gonna,

Run by a set of people in our target audience to make sure that the naming of those categories would resonate with somebody that was looking for module.

So we're trying to make that a lot a lot easier right now there are some modules I think they have and I forget the number.

Let's just say 25-30 categories assigned to them.

[20:13] So your module would appear no matter which category you selected.

Trying to limit it. We're trying to limit it to three. The top three categories.

So 123 categories that your module would um would fall under. And I just want to finish one thing that we started talking about was um the maintainers.

So yes the issues are in the project browser. Q. Right now but after the issues get worked on and they're ready for review.

I create an issue and the maintainers Q.

With the suggested logo, the suggested description, suggested categories and then they go and make the changes.

So that's how we're gonna work with the maintainers to get this all done.

Okay. First of all, wow because this is you know what I'm really impressed so far is you know we've been talking about maybe 20 minutes so far and we haven't really talked about anything code.

[21:06] Everything we've talked about from how to, you know, get involved in the project browser initiative has been from non the non code side of things, which I think is fantastic.

Number two, correct me if I'm wrong currently in beta to the categories that are displayed in project browser are the old categories not the new categories.

Right? That is correct. I did want to say that out loud because if you go, I'm staring at the interface right now and I always chuckle whenever I see content construction kit references because anyone who's been in the community for five years,

or less is like, oh, content construction kit, that sounds new. What is that?

Oh no, that's the opposite. Exactly. Exactly. That was the first thing I identified that was like, oh yeah, that one's got to go.

[21:52] Um, and then my third point is, um, you know, just what a huge amount of work um,

uh, you know, the categorization, the writing, the short descriptions and the design of the new icons is especially when you consider and I don't, are you focusing just on the top 102 100?

Like what are you focusing on the, on a subset of contributed modules right now for that effort?

Yes. Right now we're doing the top 100 we've made really good progress on the top 50. Sorry, go ahead.

No, no, that's fine. So great progress on the top 50. That's good.

So I would imagine and I, you know, you and I have not talked about this, but I would imagine that there is some hope among the team that if the you know between getting the top 100 sorted.

[22:45] And project browser, getting more eyeballs on it,

and tested and and getting closer to um you know, moving into core that those two things are gonna encourage module maintainers to update their own,

short description, logo and categories.

Is that the idea? I can't imagine that your team is super excited about. Okay, well we got the 1st 100 done now. Let's do the next 1900 correct?

That is correct. So the hope is that once module maintainers get more familiar with the project browser, see it and see how it's being used, that they will just go in and you know,

add these things, they might not add the logos, we might need, you know, designers to come in and add the logos for some of their modules, but it'll just be an issue that's created for that.

But yeah, hopefully they will at least try to create short non tactical descriptions and then we'll just have a community feedback on those like we do for everything else.

[23:42] Right. Right, Right, okay, this is super exciting stuff.

Alright, so I will ask one question.

So the I will ask many questions as has been the case so far, um and this might get more to the technical side of it or I don't know, maybe not.

But one of the first things I did when I installed it was I wanted to play with that search,

and I was thinking about meta tag module but I didn't want to search for meta tag and you can tell me you can cut me off anytime and basically say, well the search isn't done yet, we're not indexing all the fields or whatever, but I did, you know, I search for S. C. O.

[24:19] Hoping that meta tag would come up high in those results and it didn't.

Now, is that more of an issue with we need to write better teasers or is that more of a category, A categorization issue or is that more of a technical type of issue?

Your first statement that the search is not completed yet is the answer to all of those.

So yes, we want the short descriptions to have those type of tags within them right now. It's not looking at categories, it's only right now I believe it's only looking at the description field.

So if I was well let's say if I was me as I am, me and I ran across that. Is that an issue that I should submit as a bug right now or now knowing that search is not ready and working. Should I hold off on something like that?

[25:05] I would recommend creating an issue if an issue doesn't already exist with what you hope that people, you know, folks put into that search box.

So you hope that it's going to look at categories. You hope that it's going to look at short descriptions if that doesn't exist, that would be helpful to know what your expectations are for that.

Yeah, I think a lot of times and even me included when you're playing with a prerelease version of anything and you find a bug.

[25:33] There's always a little bit of hesitation about should I file that bug report still in beta. So they probably know about it, right? That they probably know about it, you know, idea. But I think, I mean.

[25:48] I was just gonna say no, you go, you're okay.

I was just gonna say that we deal with we we do everything with issues.

So if there isn't an issue, it hasn't been identified as an independent little thing that we need to work on.

So you are helping us by creating those issues.

All right, very good. And that's a that's a super valuable contribution as well.

It's like if you're just playing with this thing for a half hour and you see something like that, go to the project browser issue queue, search for it and see if you know someone else already reported it.

If not report it. Absolutely. All right.

So let's get down to the nitty gritty about answering this question of of how to contribute and then what we'll kind of finish up. I want to talk about the immigration with automatic Autumn Well with what's the package manager?

[26:44] Package manager? That's the word I could think of package manager. Thank you. So we'll talk about that in a second.

But it seems like we've identified, you know, to answer the question of the podcast is how to get involved in the project browser initiative from a non code standpoint.

[27:00] You know, get in the issue queue if you want to write teasers look for, you know, I'm sure it's probably pretty easy in the project browser issue you to find issues related to writing teasers, categorization working on that.

If you're a designer, if you have any design skills whatsoever, you know, I'm sure unless you can give me how many folks are actually creating these logos, is that I'm gonna guess less than five?

No, no, no, I would say closer to 10 to 15. So when we have different contribute days and all these different camps and drupal cons folks come, designers come and they just, you know, they might only do for that day and they might come back and do some more when they have time.

But yeah, we've, we've had a lot of different folks contribute to that, which is great for the design community.

I don't know if I should be surprised by that or not, but that's fantastic.

[27:46] How about folks who just want to download it, install it and test it.

Like at this point in time at beta two, what areas should they be focusing on testing.

[27:56] I think if they haven't seen it before and they just use git pod and they don't even do better to they, I mean they do better too, but they don't have the uh, the ability to automatically install just, you know, it doesn't make sense.

Is it, is it non tactical enough for them to understand how to go and search for modules.

Are there any things that aren't working? So that's one thing we do have a combine board that does, that has the top 100 in it and that has everything that like needs work, needs review, etcetera.

That's the place to go if you want to work on the the teasers or short descriptions or the designing of the logos or the categories.

I already have that link in the show so that will definitely perfect.

Yeah, that's really helpful for folks to just go there and, and you know, it only takes a few minutes to do some of those so all contributions welcomed there by any, any skill levels and lets throw a bone to folks who want to get involved on the code side of things.

What's the, what's kind of the best first step for folks who want to get involved in the codes I would say. So we have to weekly meetings, um, asynchronous slack typically Tuesdays at 10 a.m.

Is the site builder subcommittee that I lied. So I run that meeting on Wednesdays.

[29:07] I'm sorry, Tuesdays at four PM, I misspoke is disciple the subcommittee Wednesdays at 10 a.m.

And those are both eastern 10 AM Eastern is more the tactical discussion. So I would, I would recommend getting there, you know, coming in there or just hopping in the project browser channel on drupal slack and say I'm interested in helping out from the, from a code standpoint.

Maybe you're interested in spelt javascript and you want to get into that because once this module goes to course felt has to go to be in core so maybe that's an area that you're interested in.

So yeah, I would recommend one of those two options and it's, it's on the drupal slack, it's pound project dash browser, correct?

That's correct. Very good. Okay, so let's uh, I want to talk real quick about this.

What I think is very exciting and this is kind of the, you know, in my opinion, one of the killer features of this effort is the ability to have the one click install.

[30:07] So as we mentioned, you know, 20 minutes ago or so that as you browse the module with before beta two, if you liked it, you hit the button, it would show you the instructions on how to install it with composer, run this command, blah blah blah blah blah.

But with beta two and the package manager module, it's a one click install, which is super exciting. I tested on my local machine, most folks who know me know that I run D deV, you know, no issues whatsoever.

So do you expect and I know this, you know, this is always a question I have whenever I think or talk about automatic updates is the one click install is great for a certain percentage of users.

You know, who have a particular type of hosting but for me that you know, and this is coming from someone who build sites and and teaches this stuff and uses get every day and stuff like that.

I think it's a little bit confusing for a lot of people. If I do a one click install, how do I commit that to the repository?

So how does that I mean in your head, how does that kind of like gel?

Like how do you talk to someone about project browser and one click install with kind of that big to me, it feels like a big caveat hanging over over my head on that.

[31:26] Yeah, that's a very good question. Quite honestly, I haven't been involved with any of the detailed discussions with ted Bowman and the team on that,

but that is the reason that they did put the default to not allow the automated updates at least right now that you have to have to select that as a new user of the site.

It's it's great because if I install token, for instance, if I hit the button that says install it, it goes and it realizes that path auto is a dependency.

So it will not only install token. It installs path auto for you as well. So they don't have to know that you have that backwards. But I take your point. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

But that's probably I probably do. But yes, you can you can test that, you know, using beta beta too. But there are questions about, you know, there's a lot of different.

[32:19] Hosts, a lot of different, you know, setups and automatic updates will work for some may may give you some errors on others.

So that that's something that we need help with testing beta two is for folks to go in and and see what their configuration, how does it work?

What types of errors does that come up with? And that's more in the automated updates, initiative,

Q to kind of work on those project browser is relying on that, that the great work that that those teams do to take care of all those issues.

Yeah, I'm really, I'm fascinated by that one aspect of it because I think it's gonna, you know, it's a great feature but it's going to change.

I I think it's probably gonna have some type of trickle down effect,

to drupal hosting as well because it's one of those features that folks are gonna want but they're not gonna want to hear that Oh, I can't have it because, you know, of my hosting and get and this and that.

So I think it's, I think it's a really interesting problem of our own making and it's kind of, I think it's the, you know, it's a type of problem we want.

[33:25] But but it does solve the problem of people being, you know, I don't want to say afraid of, but people hesitating to do all this because of the terminal and because of composer and that's all very technical and we're trying to get around that.

So hopefully for a set of individuals, this install button is going to be a big win for drupal I think in some ways it, you know, it cuts both ways because once it becomes really easy for folks to install stuff,

The question is, should you install all this stuff now, I'm going to test these 13 modules.

I didn't know I have to disable them if I'm not uninstall them if I'm not using them. So I think.

[34:06] You know, it's gonna be interesting. We're gonna have new problems, new challenges in the future.

Yes, I agree, but that's what's fun about drupal right, You have a community. We solve all these new challenges.

Um one more thing that we haven't mentioned is the recipes initiative which also ties in very directly to project browser.

So when we first started, we had this thing on use cases, you know, people come to project browser and they have a specific thing in mind.

I want to create an event, website, an event, you know, or I want to do a library website or something.

So the recipes hopefully will be allowed also allow folks to search for a recipe and say give me all the modules and configuration that I need to create an event, you know, management system here.

So that's how recipes will come in. Fantastic. Alright, Leslie, thank you very much for your time. I do have one final question for you um, knowing that you are from, are you originally from massachusetts? Do I have that? Right.

All right, so this you're gonna have to think about this question for a moment.

Um, it involves, it probably involves a very large number.

I grew up in Connecticut, you know, just just over the border of massachusetts and it's kind of a joke I have with with my family and friends up there, But Leslie, I'm gonna ask you right now within five miles of where you are right now.

How many Dunkin donuts are there?

[35:32] Yeah, I want to stay within five miles. More than 20.

[35:39] Yeah, I would guess that it probably is more than 20.

Right? My right now my town is probably six or seven. Yeah.

Unbelievable. Dunkin Donuts. Not many tim Hortons, but there are a lot of Dunkin donuts. How far is the closest one to?

[35:57] Yeah?

[36:03] Oh my God, that's fantastic.

[36:08] Oh no, I was driving home yesterday and I drove home a slightly different route because I was actually meeting meeting my son for dinner and there's a brand new Dunkin donuts that went up,

you know, seemingly overnight, you know, I think I just drove down that road, you know, maybe three weeks ago and I didn't see any sign of the Dunkin donuts.

So the, the invasion, the worldwide invasion is full on.

Yeah, well I know the architecture does a lot of the Duncans,

he actually architected the did the addition to the house and I mean he's a friend from college so he does a lot of the, because he probably did the one that sprung up in your son's neighborhood.

So you have, you have Dunkin donuts in your house now. That's fantastic.

It's like, yeah, I even as you know, and some other folks know I spend time in Belgium and there are, you know, there are now Dunkin donuts in, in cities in Belgium.

Not maybe not all of them, but at least at least in antwerp there's multiple Dunkin donuts. Nice.

Well I don't know, it's nice. I mean it's a bit much of Yeah, Well for folks that love Dunkin donuts I guess that works.

The funny thing is they don't open early in Belgium, they opened like nine a.m.

So it's more, it's not so much like an early morning coffee place as it is like a afternoon doughnut and dessert store.

[37:31] Yeah, it's weird. It's kind of anyway. Alright Leslie, I think we've talked enough.

Okay, great. Well I just want to thank all the contributors who have helped us so far and welcome anybody that wants to help us out as a small amount of time as you have. You're welcome.

Alright. Thank you, Leslie. And all the links we talked about. I'll put in the show notes.

Perfect. Thanks. Mike for having me.

[37:52] Music.